Saturday, September 22, 2012

Kiddush before davening, for women


If a single woman eats before praying Shacharit (the permissibility of doing so is a different question) on Shabbat or Yom Tov, she should recite kiddush.

The status of a married woman is different, because she and her husband are legally bound to eat together, and so before davening might not be termed "the time for eating" to require kiddush.

The status of men is entirely different, because it is clear that men may not eat before davening, other than in unique situations of illness.

(Rav Moshe Feinstein, Igrot Moshe Orach Chaim 4:101:2)

Gmar tov,


  1. There is the famous ruling that everyone is considered a cholleh nowadays.

    I have never heard of women reciting kiddush if they eat before davening (single or married). I'd like to see the reasoning/sources.

  2. Also, I wonder if "eating" means eating a meal, with ha'motzi and washing, or if it means eating mezoinos or fruit.

  3. AC-
    1. Where is the ruling that everyone is a choleh? I'd be curious to see it.

    2. For Rav Moshe's reasoning, take a look at the teshuvah I cited. "Eating" seems to include mezonos and fruit, based on his language.

  4. 1. Orach Chayim, 89:4: "One who is hungry or thirsty is considered like a sick person. If he can have Kavanah (i.e. if he can concentrate), he should pray. If he can't, he is permitted to refrain from prayers until he eats."

    Most Chabad poskim ruled this way, while, AFAIK, many non-Chabad poskim did not. In Chabad also there is a minhog to learn Chassidus for a couple hours before davening, so there is also a minhog to eat a small breakfast.

    On the other hand, Shulchan Aruch HaRav rules that since the time before davening is not the proper time for kiddush, one should not make kiddush (exception that allows chollim to eat breakfast notwithstanding). Obviously, Rav Moshe rules differently; I was just surprised, since I've never heard of anyone making kiddush before davening.

    2. Thanks.

  5. The Shulchan Aruch and Shulchan Aruch haRav are known, but where is the psak that everyone is a choleh?